Max Divergent

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Posts by Max Divergent

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  30

  BOE Letters

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  around 18 months ago or so i thought i heard about one (body of elders letter) that counseled elders that if they had committed fonication, and it had been awhile, and if they felt that god had forgiven them, that it was not necessarily a mandate that they confess to their fellow elders nor step down.

  or, something to that effect.

  does anyone remember that one or where i can get a copy?.

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  Max Divergent

  Perry - it was an OKM in about '72 as HS said. I'd guess that a BOE of the sort you mention would very likley be on the authority of that OKM. It is unlikley (but might happen) that a BOE would have 'new light', more likley a new shade on an old lamp.

  As to 1), there is more specific detail on certian DF offences in the Flock book (and maybe letters etc) than in the public materials. The common one that gets quoted often is the more explicit description of pornia in Flock compared to the WT. 'Borderline cases' might be technically grey areas according to the WT, but are DF offences according to Flock. If a new elder reads Flock for the first time and has a guilt trip as a result of a 'grey area' indiscretion years ago (and has been a good boy since) that he now knows to be a DF offence and confesses, he need not be removed and reproved/DF as a result of this.

  I'd suggest it's sensible and preserves some Christian charity and fairness. I'd just like the same charity extended to all JW, not just those who get an appointment. I seem to recall the discussion months ago. I think that's all it was, no big deal.

  Max
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  76

  15th July WT ...Islam is the King of the North??

  by caspian in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if this has already been posted, i apologise for repeating it.

  in the july wt, the writers have come up with the new theory that islam is the new king of the north.

  i haven't seen the article yet, .

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  Max Divergent

  I remember it as being the Anglo-Americal dual world power, the UK and US. The 1958 book said the power balance would shift from the UK to the US before the end, and that's happened.

  What might fit better with WT ideas is to make the US the last King of the North, the last one standing in the struggle of nations... the one Michael finally has to attack.

  That shift (from free South to totalitarian North) could be either: 1) pinpointed on attacking ancient holy places under false pretences and in the face of the impotent condemnation of the rest of the world; or 2) could be foreshadowed as the ultimate end of the current Middle East/Terror/Iraq/Israel situation.

  Presumably, the WTS might also say that the final battle starts against radical Isalm, but ends with the JW's, who also preach for theocratic rule to replace human government by way of Holy War.

  That's just my speculation on the whirrings of the WTS collective hive... it'd give real immediacy and a collective threat close to home for JW's in the West. It'd trigger all sorts of fear reactions amongst the Bro's globally (it's put them on the 'wrong side' of the War on Terror, for one thing) and it could be dragged on for as long as the War on Terror and all other Middle East issues go on for... and that could be decades.

  Then they just need a couple of creative paragraphs to link the commencement of this final Act in the Drama of Nations (I think they called it somthing like that...) with asupposed commencement of 'Armageddon' in 2004, being 1914 + 90 years - one modern life span. Then they overcome most of their chronology problems too.

  Max - of the frustrated Watchtower writer class
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  30

  BOE Letters

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  around 18 months ago or so i thought i heard about one (body of elders letter) that counseled elders that if they had committed fonication, and it had been awhile, and if they felt that god had forgiven them, that it was not necessarily a mandate that they confess to their fellow elders nor step down.

  or, something to that effect.

  does anyone remember that one or where i can get a copy?.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Max Divergent

  BUT... these are the condiitons for the '72 article which has never been overuled (from memory):

  1. The person must not have had access to WT info that their act was a sin (eg: it was only written in a BOE letter),

  2. More than 3 years must have passed between sin and confession/discovery

  3. An appointment by holy spirit (to elder or MS, and maybe to Reg Pio) must have occured between sin and the confession/discovery

  I'm not sure if the person needs to show repententce or not because forgiveness is deemed to have been given by Jehovah Himself. The evidence of the forgiveness is Jehovah's approval on his appointment as an MS or elder. (NEAT SYSTEM?!?)

  The grossness of the sin is not relevent. It was put there for the smoking cases of the 1970's, but it still has rare application.

  Max
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  76

  15th July WT ...Islam is the King of the North??

  by caspian in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if this has already been posted, i apologise for repeating it.

  in the july wt, the writers have come up with the new theory that islam is the new king of the north.

  i haven't seen the article yet, .

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  Max Divergent

  But there is a truth to KoN v KoS....

  It's 'freedom v tyrrany' or 'conservitives v liberals' or 'ying and yang' or 'the Left v the Right' or 'Labor v Capital' or 'Nice Dad v Strict Mom' or whatever you like to think of it as....

  This tension is ever present and, IMO, the WTS just captures this in the context of Daniel and their own self-percieved position in the world.

  Max
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  53

  Which Way Did You Choose To Leave The Organization?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for me it was the slow, purposeful fade....and you?

  ?

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  Max Divergent

  Fast Fade... just stopped going. My deletion was announced then I went on a months vacation and just never, ever went near the place again.

  When they visited, I stonewalled, played sick and they got the message.

  Max
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  34

  Remember the 1961 green Bible?

  by outbutnotdown in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i know there are numerous examples of crazy, whacked out stuff that the wtbts taught that most of here now realize were just that...... crazy and whacked......... but do you know how insane some of the stuff in that original 1961 bible was?.

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  Max Divergent

  Anyone remember the red edition? It came out very briefly in the late '60's or early '70's. I only ever saw one, it was my uncle's. The cover was a little softer than the green, and the paper bunched up more. I think there was a brown one briefly too, another relitive had that one. (No, I'm not confused with the 'new bibles' in black and brown about 1980-82 or so).

  Max
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  40

  California Supreme Court and Religious Freedom

  by Yerusalyim in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  monday the california supreme court ruled that private religious charities with employees must offer birth control along with their medical prescription benefits, even though doing so violates religious principle.

  comments on free exercise?

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  Max Divergent

  Isn't the individual the one with the right to free exercise? If the church has to allow free exercise for its employees to get BC or not with no financial penealty for working for a church body, isn't that a good thing for personal freedom?
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  14

  Media Bias?????

  by Yerusalyim in

  1. social
  2. current

  interesting ap stories and their headlines yesterday.

  notice that in the story on kerry, the headline is, "kerry calls for deeper tax cuts for the middle class" in the article i've highlighted the real news of that story.

  which is that he said the gop was the most crooked lying group he's ever seen.

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  Max Divergent

  If it's gotta be GOP, then Condi Rice for Prez, Powell for VP!!! There's some brain power there at least.

  Otherwise, AP better get their finger out and get a lot more 'biased' than this!!

  When Bush talks, it's like he's just repeating what he hears in the ear piece, the inflection and tone has a pattern to it that is too often misplaced for the use of words... it's like they're not his words and he's just repeating sounds.

  When the Fl numbers were coming in for Bush, I was wondering how bad the world would get in the next four years with bad decisions being made at the top with a man of the people's level at the helm, you need someone with more quals or more brains than me as Prez (I've got more of both than George, and I'm a teacher)... if Gore was Prez, the world would be different. I think less bad. This is a dangerous admin. Most of them scare me and for good reason.

  This is a bad, bad administration IMO, and to slight them is to be biased toward them. They need to be savaged.

  Max
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  66

  Visit From Elders

  by laurelin in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it's been awhile since i've been on here.

  due to death in the family, chicken pox in children and other nasty things.. i posted here awhile ago about things i had found the unsettled me.

  i was due to have a visit from two elders and a lot of you gave me lots of help and encouragement.. well, the two elders visited and i have to admit that it was nothing like i expected.. they sat down, and told me straight away that there was nothing i could say or ask that would hurt me.

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  Max Divergent

  Hi - I've had similar elder experiences, really it was only the existance of a few guys like that (1:50? 1:100? 1:1000?) that enabled me to stay for as long as I did (bastards :-). They are usually a minority on a circut and generally get picked on by the other less liberal elders.

  IMO, their righteous stubborness or kindness to the long suffering flock (or whatever) that allows them to put up with the rest of the elders also stops them from leaving the WTS.

  Incidently, most of those guys have been English, well educated, and born before about 1945.

  Max
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  72

  SUGGESTED LETTER CAMPAIGN TO GET THE UN TO RELEASE THE WTS FILE

  by hawkaw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the pertinent information dealt with confirmation that a ngo by the name of the watchtower bible and tract society of new york , inc. (watchtower) held an ?associated ngo?

  this may not seem as an important issue to the united nations.

  1) a photocopy of the original 1991 letter from the watchtower to the dpi requesting an application form for ?associate ngo?

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  Max Divergent

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